Curse

EPO Bot · Dec 02, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Exactly. Elite missions are not for regular humans like us.

The truely greatest players can handle them. And believe it or not, you and me are NOT the greatest players ever.

Ninna · Dec 02, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

this thread reads like another "DOA is too hard" thread

Lord Beramus · Dec 02, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

this thread reads like another "DOA is too hard" thread

What we got here is a failure to communicate

Like Paul Newman "Luke" said back in 1967.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 02, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

A lot of these conversations are very similar to when FoW and UW just started to being explored. Getting to the forgemaster was seen as a wonderous achievement, heck even getting to Rasti's house was a big deal. People looked in wonder when it was discovered there was an actual armor set you could get.

Same with UW and getting past the mindblades, bone pits whatever.

Fast forward to SF, who remembers the protests about Alkar and Orozar? Ruined tombs was the same, as people struggled at first to find away around the chaos skills etc.

We were shielded somewhat from it in factions with Urgoz and the Deep as at first access was by invite or alliance only. I was lucky enough to be in one of those very very early Urgoz teams and tbh the first mob where you are swarmed by dredge seemed as daunting as this.

But we learned and adapted. We died(a lot) and we worked out what did and did'nt work.

People like myself wanted open access for all and the missions themselves to be the challenge, now we got it and i'm enjoying it.

Old builds and tactics not used for over a year are coming back in, but mixed with the new skilll sets and attributes we have now. I'm likiing it no end. I love this pioneer stuff, thinking my way around a problem, trying new and weird stuff; it's what keeps GW fresh.

It's not even been 24 hours yet and it's way too early to tell. The best thing for the community right now is'nt to whinge, but to work out how to beat this thing together.

shardfenix · Dec 02, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Beramus

This update revealed to me, that for the first time, something in GW was created out of the principles of quality. Showed that you run something quick, without a single good idea in it's structure, untested, and obvious time-pressed. Maybe you want to catch some deadline for the next GW chapter but this way you risk to compromise one of the best games ever in creativity, beautiness and support.

I have two things to say to that.
1: They released Nightfall before the initial deadline. It isn't late, you're just early.
2: Arenanet is retarted and doesn't ever test things before a public beta. Even if they did, they have no clue how powerful some things they put in the game are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Beramus

I was expecting more from the Nighfall's elite or at least something equal to the creations before and what I saw was a total luck of ideas and creativity, replaced by more monsters a player team can handle, something that will keep us occupied until the next chapter maybe. Besides players find always a way to resolve.

Again, 2 things.
1: Domain of Anguish is not an elite mission. Just because it says "elite mission" when you enter does not make it an elite mission. It allows 8 people. This is the mini-expansion that Anet said they would release every 2 chapters (Sorrow's Furnace 2). They cut the elite mission out of the game (unless there is one inside DoA that nobody has found yet).
2: Try trapping lately? Arenanet seems to enjoy rewarding people who aren't good at the game by letting them use random skills, leeroy a mob, and kill them effortlessly, more than they enjoy rewarding good monking, good tanking, and well placed aoe spells. Guild Wars is a game of skill? Pfft.

The domain of anguish was a disappointment for me and many players I play with, no wait, all players I play with. The best players in the world gathered in the international districts of DoA today and could not find a way to clear the areas. Fighting one boss dealing 300 damage per attack is managable, but when the only thing you fight is mobs of lv 28 bosses with enhanced damage, it's just rediculous.

And a personal note to arenanet's people. Increasing the difficulty of a game/area/mechanic is one thing that most, if not all players, enjoy. However, when you make something so hard that it becomes impossible to beat it with skill, it's a waste of everybody's time. You're practically begging the bad players to make out better than the best in the world, and it sickens me more than the HA metagame. DoA was the biggest disappointment I've had in GW.

technician · Dec 02, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Wow and I actually started progressing a bit more in NF to eventually try DoA but i'm not feeling a very positive flow with it's release . I guess I have nothing to rush to again .

draxynnic · Dec 02, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

There is one thing here that irritates me...

I haven't done many of the elite areas, unless you count Sorrow's Furnace. I'm generally more interested in progressing my stable through the game collecting skills and so on than going for the real prestige areas. I did a few runs of Tombs in the first few weeks it was around before B/P groups became standard (none of which reached the Darknesses, although one came very close until we messed up an aggro at the start of the final area), but I haven't ventured into the Underworld, the Fissure of Woe, or either of the Factions elite missions. I had a quick try at DoA earlier today, with what was essentially a throwtogether group of heroes and rejects (I wasn't actually intending to go in at all, but there were a couple of Dervishes being discriminated against and I thought I would give it a go) which, probably not surprisingly, got creamed. I think the second go we actually managed to kill a couple of the first group.

However, there's a distinct difference between DoA and the other 'elite' areas. The others don't really have anything you need. You don't need FoW armour. You don't need the greens from Tombs or from the Factions missions. The latter could give you a bit of an edge, but you don't really have any fundamental capabilities that you miss out on for not having the greens from those locations.

DoA, however, from what I understand from my look - unlocks Razah. But to even get into the zone you need to for the quest to get him, you need to have had success in the Domain of Anguish - either completing the Mallyx the Unyielding quest, or being lucky enough to find the gems by drops.

Now, if Razah was simply a prestige duplicate of a profession that already had a hero, that would be fine. However, instead he(it)'s the only Ritualist hero in the game. While the rewards for other elite areas are fairly superficial beyond the prestige, defeating - or at least being able to farm the gems for - the DoA is a requirement to gain a capability that, at present, cannot be gained any other way.

And that's something I disagree with. The other elite areas are purely optional. As things stand, this one is a requirement for anyone who wants a Ritualist hero - and lacking a Ritualist hero does represent a gap in people's capabilities that lack of prestige armour or elite mission greens doesn't.

Pro-Monk · Dec 02, 2006, 12:52 PM // 12:52

The OP makes an excellent point, not just about DoA, but the general trend of the chapters. The "quality" of play has dropped dramatically, somewhat in Factions and now much more dramatically in Nightfall.

There are basically three types of people replying to this thread.

1.) Hardcore GW types that follow the cookie cutter builds which rend any area as "easy", regardless of how banal it may be. These posters usual include a flame about how anybody that can't handle an area are just "noobish".

2.) Braggart wannabe types claiming that they can finish anything, and have done it solo besides, but are really only forum flamers.

3.) Finally there are those that want to present a rationale discussion about the overall gameplay and it's effect. I put the OP in this class, however most of the replys have been from those of the types above.

IMO, it's the hardcore GW types that have driven the game to this point. That's to say that it's these people that have taken advantage of every exploit possible and created the need for Anet to take steps like nerfing. It's appears that Anet has tried to negate the impact of these players by simply creating large mobs of super monsters. Unfortunately, this has left the rest of us out in the cold.

I completely agree with the OP that the overall game has become more of a "frustation" than fun. In fact, everyone in my guild has expressed the very same thing. There was a time, when following the primary quests and missions, a team could use strategy on appoach, aggro, targeting, etc. that would eventually lead to completion. Those days are long gone.

Now, you have to search the web for specific team and skill builds just to finish the game. The Gate of Maddness mission is a good example. The vast majority of players find this mission to be an exercise in fustration. A long battle, only to get raped at the end by super monsters. That is, unless you follow a very specific team and skill build that rends the whole mission rather bane.

I also am in agreement with the OP that the GW devs need to do more than simply populate maps with huge mobs of super monsters that can't be separated. There was an "elegance" to Prophecies that has been lost. Maybe it is the "pressure" of cranking out new chapters every six months. However, I seem to think that a lot of it has to do with trying to "out think the hardcore GW exploiters". It's too bad that, in the end, such a strategy will get rid of the players Anet wishes to attract and only leaving those they are trying to minimize.

baz777 · Dec 02, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I believe that the difficulty level has increased in the final stages of Nightfall but for me that just adds to the enjoyment of adapting builds and tactics to suit. I am far from the greatest players in GW, but I am one of the most persistent

I managed to complete Nightfall with Heroes/Henches.

When I first started GW over a year ago the desert area, the Shiverpeaks, then the Fire Islands seemed particularly hard. I’ve taken my Nightfall character over and completely finished these areas, again with Heroes/Henches. What seemed hard 12 months ago surprisingly turned out to be insanely easy this time around.

I do believe however that by increasing the difficulty level they have made it harder for certain professions to get into teams or progress as easily as some others.

Prophecies – Best Chapter to date
Factions – Poor story line and too easy
Nightfall – Better than Factions, (not saying much), but not as good as Prophecies

I would rather they spent more time on releases, (not release every 6 months).

MithranArkanere · Dec 02, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

There are many players. Not only the ones that have obsidian armor.
All we have paid for the game, not only the 0.1% of them than may be able to team up, use TS, test all the possible builds because they have unlocked and purchased every single skill two years ago.
There are players entering the game right now.

You are bored? You want a challenge? Go to PvP.

What will be next? A class only r15 or people that have beaten all the elite missions can make?

An area with monsters with a single one hit kill skill?

Make the game so eveyne that pays for it can play. EVERYONE.

Happy · Dec 02, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

There are many players. Not only the ones that have obsidian armor.
All we have paid for the game, not only the 0.1% of them than may be able to team up, use TS, test all the possible builds because they have unlocked and purchased every single skill two years ago.
There are players entering the game right now.

You are bored? You want a challenge? Go to PvP.

What will be next? A class only r15 or people that have beaten all the elite missions can make?

An area with monsters with a single one hit kill skill?

Make the game so eveyne that pays for it can play. EVERYONE.

You already have to be a freaking retard not to be able to beat everything in PvE.
Tyria? Henchable (without hero's!) completly including Thunderhead and the Fire Ilses.
Chanta? Henchable (without hero's!) completly including shiro.
Elona? I did all of it with my roommate and 6 heroes we with the exception of the last 2 missions wich we both got on second try we got everything else mostly with masters onn the first try. And i haven't been to DoA yet but i'm pretty sure if i were to do it with the guild or people of my flist i'd be perefectly fine (besides they'd laugh at me for suggesting it).

The PvE in this game is so freaking easy it should make you cry tbh.
Let me put it this way Quadruple the difficulty of Guild Wars please so that their actually is a point playing PvE and i will actually feel like i accomlish something.

justadude · Dec 02, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

It seems to me that Anets answer late has been to make them hit hard. I get what the OP is saying. I find that this trend in Nightfall is stupid and it makes me want to go play other game more. Which I do.

There are many, many, many good and great things in Nightfall. Nice artwork, a great hero system a few funky elites, much humor, but the way the Realm of Torment was handled was akin to the butcher job done on Knights of the Old Republic 2 The Sith Lords. They simple made mobs hit for 4 or 5 times the usual damage. Its even more of the same in the Nightfall elite mission. I liked the Warren and Tombs and although i dont like the Deep I would never knock it.

Ah, well, maybe I will pull my ranger through the game... *shakes head thinking to Gate of Madness and Shiro* now lame...

Wildi · Dec 02, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

some people may have figured out now that no skill is overpowered (searing flames included) when fighting lvl 28 mobs in domain of anguish

Pwny Ride · Dec 02, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

It seems to me that Anets answer late has been to make them hit hard. I get what the OP is saying. I find that this trend in Nightfall is stupid and it makes me want to go play other game more. Which I do.

Thats what we where saying before it all went a little off track

Savio · Dec 02, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

This thread isn't going anywhere. If you must continue discussion, do it in the main Domain of Anguish thread. Closed.